Luc Lising is a realtor in the GTA and the president of My Future Condo, a pre-construction real estate firm that helps people invest in pre-construction homes and condos. At only 22 years old, Luc reached the Top 1% bracket of all Realtors in Canada. Luc and his team have done over $180m in real estate sales, closing over 300+ deals over the last 2 years.
In my interview with Luc, we discuss his journey to become a successful as realtor at such a young age, what to look for when buying an investment property, and mental fortitude, the ups and downs of business.
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Full Transcript
Sean Cooper
Welcome to the Burn Your Mortgage Podcast. I'm Sean Cooper and it's great to be back for another episode, today's show. I'll be talking to Luc Lising. Luke is a realtor in the GTA and the president of My Future Condo, a pre-construction real estate firm that helps people invest in pre-construction homes and condos. At only 22 years old, Luc reached the top 1% bracket of all realtors in Canada, Luc, and his team has done over 180 million in real estate sales closing over 300 deals over the last two years. In my interview with Luc, we discuss his journey to becoming a realtor at such a young age. What to look for when buying an investment property, and mental fortitude, the ups and downs of business. Without further ado, here's my interview with Luc Lising.
Sean Cooper
Hi, Luke, how are you doing today?
Luc Lising
I am doing well, Sean, and you?
Sean Cooper
Pretty good, thank you. And yes, I like your name, Luc. Why don't you tell me again, when we spoke last time you told me about who you're named after a famous hockey player.
Luc Lising
Well, I'm not French. The way my name is spelled is LUC Luc. And when my dad came to Canada in the late 90s, he started to become a big fan of hockey and his favourite hockey player at the time was Luc Robitaille. So that's where I got my name from.
Sean Cooper
Cool. Yeah, I thought that was an interesting story. So yeah, just thought I'd start the podcast off on an interesting note, I'm definitely a hockey fan. But each passing year when the Maple Leafs lose, I die a little inside.
Luc Lising
Me too!
Sean Cooper
My expectations are low. As long as they get out of round one, I will be happy. I mean, of course, I want them to win the Stanley Cup. But honestly, my expectations are so low that if they make it out of round one and defeat Tampa Bay, I will be happy. So let's cross our fingers and toes. And hope that happens for once.
Luc Lising
Right one step at a time right?
Sean Cooper
Exactly. So yes, I guess this is a real estate podcast. So I should ask you some real estate-related questions here. And you have quite interesting stories. So when you originally reached out to me, I guess you were an assistant at that point in time. But it seems that you've been pretty busy building a successful business and also building your name and getting your name known out there as a realtor. So you haven't been in this industry for decades and decades. You're pretty young yourself still. So why don't you tell me about how you became a successful realtor in the top 1% of Realtors in Canada at such a young age? And yes, why don't you share your inspiring story with the audience?
Luc Lising
Absolutely. I got licensed at the age of 18. And the very next day I turned 19. And for the first six months, I couldn't do a single deal. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know how to put deals together. People didn't trust me for clear reasons. So at a networking event, I met a guy that goes by the name of Mike Seal who operates a team out in Windsor, a massive team, a very successful guy. And I told him that I would reach out to him to move everything that I had from Toronto, which was pretty much nothing to Windsor, so I can learn directly from him. And then he said, slow down there, buddy. Don't do that. Just speak to my friend Jas (Takhar). He lives in Toronto, and he runs the game for Royal LePage, Canada, you know, here in Toronto. And then I didn't know who Jas was. So I googled him. And I found out that he was running the number one team for LePage, Canada, across all of Canada. So it's not just Toronto, it's just all across Canada. This was back in 2019. The US running the number one team.
So then I reached out to Jas and then I told him, Mr. Jas, I got your information from your buddy Mike, I wanted to come and work for you. I want to be on your team. He stopped me and said, Well, no problem. How long have you been in the business at the time I said about six months. He said, How old are you? I say 19. And then he said, how many deals have you done? I said zero. He stopped and said, Well, unfortunately, we don't take on any junior agents. And then I said, Well, I think you're making a big mistake if you don't meet me for a good seven, eight seconds, it was quiet. And then he said Alright, no problem coming in the next week, he texted me a link to his calendar account. And then I booked a spot for 8 am on a Monday. And then I didn't know this but he said just even before you came because you showed that you were sharp and that sense. I knew we were going to take you on our team. And at that point, I became Jas's assistant. I dedicated the first full year of my real estate career to learning from Jas. Part of the things that I used to do Sean was get Jas on other podcasts and your podcast is one of them. And I guess that's why we're speaking again today.
Sean Cooper
Well, that's amazing. And I mean I don't know how much Windsor does have warmer weather, but I guess you're probably happier that you stayed in Toronto here, but just how dedicated you are to becoming a successful realtor if you're willing to move all the way to Windsor to make that dream come true. So yes, that's an amazing story. And yeah, I mean, I guess that's not the end of the story there. So why don't you keep going? Because yeah, then you became like a successful realtor. How long were you Jas's assistant? And when did you go off on your own to become a realtor?
Luc Lising
Well, a lot more different than a lot of other successful entrepreneurs that you see today, realtors, business people, whatever it may be, it took me a year and a half, 18 months, exactly to do my first sale. Like that's how long it took to do my first deal. And by year two, or I should say, my first full year as a salesperson because I stopped being Jas's assistant. I decided to go full-time and sell myself. I did 169 deals. And then the second year, I did just under 100, which was last year, and this year, we're on track to do maybe give or take the same.
Sean Cooper
That's amazing.
Luc Lising
That's where I stand now. But the reason why I had that hockey stick type of level of growth was that my first full year I did absolutely nothing. All I did was learn, all I did was immerse myself in the language that Jas used, and how he presented himself in pitch projects and investment opportunities. I studied everything, and I immersed myself. And then afterward, I decided to do this stuff on my own.
Sean Cooper
That sounds like having a very good mentor in Jas really helped set you up for success. Because, yeah, like real estate, being a realtor isn't an easy job, by any means. I mean, it's up to you to find the people that need, that want to buy homes, and then you have to build that trust with them there. So it sounds like you had a really great teacher that maybe if you didn't have such a great teacher, the story would have been different. But it just goes to show that having a great mentor like that can really help set you up for success there because definitely, the proof is in the numbers. And that's very impressive. They literally went from zero to like over a hundred files the next year, like that definitely goes to show that having a great mentor was very helpful for you.
Luc Lising
Absolutely.
Sean Cooper
Great. Well, thanks so much for sharing your story there. And yeah, why don't you talk a bit more about how you approach real estate and how you work with clients? Because yeah, going from zero to over a hundred files then the next year? That's not something that magically happens overnight, why don't you talk a bit more about your success, how you work with clients, and why people enjoy working with you so much. I'm sure a lot of those are through referrals and other things because people are so happy with your service there. So why don't you talk about how you set yourself apart from other people, and how you make the home buying and selling experience so good for clients that you work with?
Luc Lising
Yeah, so I can answer that question in two ways. For one, the type of clients that I work with are never referrals. And I'll tell you why. It's because I got licensed at 18, turning 19 the next day. I'm 22 now and turning 23 in the summer. The people in my database, at least in my personal network before even getting licensed or not buying properties, they're not old enough, they don't have money, they don't have any career supporting them, none of that stuff. So the people that knew me, weren't in a position to be buying. Because of that, I was always on the hunt. I was constantly spending money meeting new people, going to networking events, and shaking as many hands as possible. I did anything and everything I could to get as many new clients as possible. And when I did get them, I had no choice but to nurture them. Because as I said earlier, I don't have people from business, right, that's just not where I came from.
So I was always on the hunt, that's for one. And two, the moment, I had an investor that wanted to do some business together. My philosophy in real estate protects me and my investor clients. And that's buy and hold. And the reason why it protects them is that we know historically in Canada, over 100 years of real estate data, this is across all provinces, property values double every 10 years. So if I say buy this and hold it for 10 years, at $500,000, in 10 years, you're now going to be worth a million. That's not me speculating. That's just going based on years of data. If you're bullish on real estate, then maybe you're not the person that should be investing. But that's what 100 years of data shows me and the reason why I take that approach because one, it protects me if I say if you buy this today and a year from now it's going to be worth X and it's not worth X is worth Y instead and Y significantly lower than X, guess who's gonna get slap on the wrist, me. But if I say hold this for a long enough time period, there's a good chance it's going to be worth X because this is what the data shows. My clients are happy. I'm happy. I never sold them a get-rich-quick scheme. That's my philosophy.
I'm a hunter. I'm constantly chasing new business. Once I earn the trust of my investor clients, I let them know listen, I'm not gonna get rich quick and In this market, we're gonna get rich very slowly. And it's going to take you 10 years for this thing to double in value.
Sean Cooper
Yeah, that sounds like a great philosophy. And obviously, you've built up a lot of trust with your clients there, if you are able to do that, that volume of business there. So maybe you can talk a bit about - before I ask you your thoughts on the current spring market here. I just wanted to get your thoughts on investing in properties. When it comes to the buy-and-hold strategy. I mean, cash flow matters as well, you don't want to be losing money by a big margin every single month. So I'm just curious, I've heard that it's more difficult in the GTA to find a property that has positive cash flows, because the prices are just so much higher than outside the GTA. So you have a certain strategy with your clients? Are you finding that people are buying investment properties in the GTA? If so, what type of properties? Is it just like condos or detached houses? And if not, are you looking at other markets like Hamilton, Windsor, Niagara Falls, and St. Catharines? Areas like that may already have different budgets but what are your thoughts in terms of property type and location to look for a property like an investment property.
Luc Lising
Completely, so I go where the money goes, whether that's here in Toronto, or that's in Florida, and I mentioned Florida, specifically, because it was our first time stepping out of our own lane. And we actually launched the project in Florida, just in Orlando, outside of Disney, and also short-term rental opportunity pre-construction of closing this year. On average, our investors there, and we're banking on the appreciation, I'm calling it 3% a year, but the cash flow is ridiculous. You're looking at like 1500 bucks to 2000 bucks a month and positive cash flow that's out there. All management fees, recovered expenses, 5%, interest rates, etc, etc. And that's also in US dollars. So our Canadian investors are going to be making quite a bit of dough from that investment. But we only work on projects where there's money. For me, in the core of the GTA, like as closer you are to Toronto, there is less cash flow, but there's more appreciation. So it's safer in that sense if it's an equity play, but if we're looking at cash flow type investments, then we tend to look outside of the GTA: Hamilton, Welland and Grimsby, these areas on the west side of Toronto, sometimes on the east side of Toronto provide for strong returns on the cash flow side. So that's where we tend to focus. I don't often go outside of my boundaries because I don't want to advise someone correctly. Like I've never done anything in Calgary. I know Calgary is really starting to boom. But until I'm confident in that myself, then I probably won't be touching. Like I personally actually just invested in a condo, in downtown Hamilton. And I'm very bullish on that space as well.
Sean Cooper
Yeah, Hamilton was more of an industrial city. But it seems like it's being fixed up and gentrified or whatever word you want to use. So yeah, it definitely seems like there's a lot of growth potential in that area there. So I can see why you might want to invest in Hamilton. And the price points are a lot more affordable than in Toronto. That's for sure.
Luc Lising
I hope you're right. Otherwise, I'll be losing some money.
Sean Cooper
Let's hope not. So, yes, that was very interesting. Thanks for sharing that with the listeners. And already in the news everywhere. It's been talking about higher interest rates. And I know that the mainstream media depends on what publication you read, but many of them are very bearish on real estate. But they've been predicting a real estate crash, they put out these stories several times a year for 20 years. And so far, nothing. They've been describing Armageddon where the prices fall by 50%. But I guess you have to take that with a grain of salt. I see Jas posting stuff like that there. But anyhow, I just was curious, like, certainly, the higher interest rate has had an effect on the real estate market. But it seems like things are picking up now that people are used to the higher interest rate environment. So maybe you can let me know how the past few months have been and what your thoughts are on this upcoming spring market. Like do you think it's going to be an active market? Do you think things are going to be slower? What may be, and let me know how things are for you so far, and how you think it will end up paying out in the spring.
Luc Lising
Yeah, so close to the end of last year was a little bit cold and lonely because the rate hikes came relatively quickly. And a lot of people didn't expect it. People didn't know how to brace for it. So we did find that there's a lot of uncertainty. But at one point in my last few months, I would say I literally just stopped and said, I'm not going to let the market dictate what I can produce, meaning sure the market says that this is happening and these prices are coming down here and prices are up here and that this and that it's your point about the mainstream media, you know, the fear-mongering that we're seeing, I decided that I'm going to create my own economy. Sure the economy outside might be taking a hit, but I'm going to create my own economy. I'm going to do what I have to do, which is make phone calls to do deals, get in front of as many new people as possible, produce content, get on a podcast, talk to Sean Cooper, all these things. And whatever happens, happens.
So I can answer that question in two ways. One, I can see that the market is slowly starting to rebound back, seeing that people are comfortable with these five and a half percent interest rates. And that's the scene where we can still stomach these payments. Because if you really think about it Sean, a million dollar purchase price with a 2% interest rate, the mortgage payments are given or take the same, an $800,000 purchase price with 5% interest rates, right, the purchase prices have come down, but the interest rates have come up, but the monthly payments are about the same. And we're starting to find that people are active again, we're seeing multiple offers again, we're not seeing prices, crime 20% that we've seen throughout the pandemic in the last couple of years. But activity is there again. And I'm glad that it is exactly what I predicted I wasn't going to wait for the activity to start picking back up. Now that we're here in mid-March. I'm in act of doing this since the start of the year. Because as I mentioned, I'm not going to wait for the economy to dictate my actions, right? Like I have to get to it now. Otherwise, I got bills to pay, you know what I mean? And it worked out in my favour. My investor clients are happy, everybody's doing deals, and everybody's making money. And we're finding them. So we're finding that the activity is coming back to life and consumer competence is back up.
Sean Cooper
No, that's great to hear. And I mean, me personally, with how competitive it was before with multiple offers on every single property 20-25 offers, I'm finding that my clients prefer to actually buy in this interest rate environment. I mean, sure, low rates are nice, but if you can't take advantage of them, because you're not actually able to buy a property without being willing to overpay by like fifty to a hundred thousand dollars. What use are they to use? So I'm actually finding that my clients prefer this rate environment here because home prices have adjusted accordingly, you're able to buy more homes for less in this interest rate environment. And so things kind of even out because even though rates may be higher, your mortgage you're going to be taking on is lower, because you don't have to spend as much on our property. So I mean, I'm finding my client, being able to perhaps include the addition of financing home inspection, whereas before that will be impossible. And they can actually take more time to make an informed decision rather than having to make a snap decision because 20-25 other people are interested in the property. So how do you find with your clients what they prefer, like actually being able to make an informed decision and not have to be in a rush to decide whether they want to spend hundreds of 1000s of dollars on an investment property?
Luc Lising
I think you're absolutely right, I kind of like it as well, because it kind of puts that ease in the mind that it's not gonna it's like, when you go into a bidding war, it's a different mentality. Like you're competing with 18 people, you don't know what numbers are putting up. You don't know if you're overshooting or undershooting, it's weird. But like what I'm finding Sean is that the psychology behind some of these investors absolutely does not add up. Because in the peak of the market, when things were selling 100 grand over the asking price and 300 grand over the asking price in some areas, people were so desperate to get into the market. Now that prices have tumbled 100 grand, 200 grand in some areas, there's an opportunity to scoop up something with some built-in equity in it because the original buyer bought it a few months ago, and now they're taking a loss because they keep up with the payments. Now that there's equity on the table, meat on the bone for the new investor and not a lot of competition out there. Everybody has their hands in their pockets. I thought you guys were investors, I thought we're here to make money when there's money to be made everybody shy. And the real players that actually see the opportunities here, they're buying everything under the sun, my investors, they become repeat investors, right? To me, it's more of a quality game than a quantity game. I don't just sell something like an investment property to somebody and then move on. I sell them something, they make money and they get addicted to the drug of real estate investing, and they buy another one because they see now that opportunities are out there. My average client does about two to three transactions with me every 18 months, give or take. That's what I've been finding over the last three to four years. So to answer your question, I mean, like that's what we're seeing. I think the opportunities are there and people need to realize that.
Sean Cooper
The drug of real estate that's a good term maybe I'll borrow that from you.
Luc Lising
That's yours.
Sean Cooper
Yeah, I think I don't know if I could pull it off like you there. You're pretty slick. But anyways, that was very well said. And I'm just curious, something I've heard from some real estate investors and perhaps like your clients that you work with, you sound very motivated, but I'm sure you've heard this before. My investments are down because the stock market hasn't been doing the best so people's investments may be down or rates are higher so I don't think it makes sense to buy a property right now. What would you say to somebody that says that to you? How would you counter that point?
Luc Lising
I would say rates are higher, but that's exactly when you want to buy because prices have come down. So your monthly mortgage payments or give or take the same as the time a year ago, when you were so desperate to get into the market when things are selling at an overpriced value, you were so desperate to try to pull the funds together to buy something, you know, but now that the price has come down, you're not math doesn't add up. So I speak solely to an investor. So when I bring down straight to the numbers, it's either you decide that maybe you're not ready, or like there's just information you're missing. It has nothing to do with timing. That's what I say to my investors has nothing to do with timing, because if you knew what most of us know, you'd like you, and I, Sean, you would have done this yesterday, because the opportunities are here now, of course, interest rates are high. But that's when opportunities arise. Because when interest rates are high, that means there are less people that can afford to buy more renters on the market. So that increases the value of rents. We've seen rents and trauma shoot up anywhere from 20 to 25% last year during the rate hikes. What does that mean? Price points have come down, but rents have increased. So who wins ultimately at the end of the day, investors? And users are winning when rents are up 25%? No, it's the landlord's, the rents just went up 25%, who's the landlord, Sean and I. Who's not a landlord, you're not. So when I speak to these clients that are very skeptical, I explain it to them in very logical numbers, very logical terms. If they still don't understand it, then it's something deeper than investing. They're just a little bit of freedom that I totally got when I bought my first property, I was trembling to sign on the dotted line. Trust me as I've been there. So as a salesperson, you kind of have to relate to them and not pressure them. Because the biggest mistake Realtors make is pressuring people to do something they don't want to do. And it leaves a bad taste in their mouth. I educate them the way I mentioned it. And if it makes sense, then great, if not great.
Sean Cooper
That's very well said. And I guess that answers one of the questions that you suggested on your sales strategy and how to win over new clients. And yeah, I'm the same way I focus on educating clients, I don't want to pressure them in any way because I don't enjoy as I work with a realtor. And they were all about pressuring me to sign the buyer representation agreement, and they didn't even offer me any value at all. So I didn't end up working with that realtor. I want realtors who aren't gonna pressure me and provide me with value. So you know, I definitely like your philosophy there. So since we already talked about your sales strategy, why don't we talk about, I understand that you are big on mental fortitude. So can you talk about how that plays into your day-to-day as an entrepreneur and how you use that to fuel your success as a realtor?
Luc Lising
So in any business your mental resilience will make or break you, depending on how strong your mind is which determines how much stress you can take on and ultimately how much success you'll have in business. Stress and success, they're correlated, they're linked, and the more you can take, the more you will make. So when I realized that stress and success were linked, I changed my mindset. Because just like anybody else, starting in business, you're very stressed, you're very nervous, you're very anxious. And I used to pray for the days that those anxieties that just would go away, because I didn't want to deal with them. But then I realized whenever those went away, life was too good to what life was, life was worse, actually, life was too good in the sense that nothing was being produced. It was only when I was stressed, there were more dollars coming into my bank account, more deals being done, more people friendly to other investors, etc, etc.
So when I realized that I said, Ah, stress is where you need to be stressed, you need to take on more pressure, you need to have more problems. So I wake up every single day. And I never, because I'm a religious man, I never pray to God to take away my problems. I pray that God gives me more problems, more importantly, the strength to endure them. Because that's what I realized, like they're linked. So you need to have a stronger mindset, you need to have a better work ethic, and you need to be sharp in all realms. Otherwise, you're gonna get crushed, because there are guys out there that will work no matter how they feel, no matter what happens at home, no matter what bad news they've heard, they're still gonna work. And those guys and gals, those are the ones that are competing at a high level in any business. And that's the place I intend to be. Where no matter what I'm still getting done, what needs to get done. And at the end of the day, we're service providers, there are people relying on us. There are investors out there who are trusting me with a million dollars to manage their portfolio and their real estate investing. And if I decided one day, I want to wake up a little bit too late because I was drunk and hungover the night before I'm too sad to get up because this happened. And that's disrespectful to my clients that trusted me. Do you know what I mean? And there's a long list of things that I can just list about these things, but it's absolutely, utterly necessary. It's the only thing that you actually need. Everything else comes into place after you have the right mental fortitude.
Sean Cooper
No, very well said because, yes, you definitely have to have thick skin to run your own business. And yes, it definitely takes the right type of person to do that because some people are similar to being landlords, I mean, some people aren't cut out to do that. So that's some very good advice for anyone looking to follow in your footsteps and become an entrepreneur.
Sean Cooper
Thanks for listening to another episode of the burn your mortgage podcast. Besides being a podcast host, I'm also an independent mortgage broker. If you or anyone you know, family, friends, co-workers, or neighbors could ever use any unbiased mortgage advice or a second opinion, feel free to reach out, email me at Sean that's s e a n@burnyourmortgage.ca or call or text me at 647-867-3711 for a free mortgage consultation. Also, be sure to head on over to www.burnyourmortgage.ca and sign up for my free weekly newsletter. As a small token of my appreciation, you'll be able to download my ultimate mortgage checklist on choosing the perfect mortgage. I look forward to hearing from you and helping you with all your mortgage needs. Once again, thanks for listening.