The Burn Your Mortgage Podcast: Kijiji holds the keys to rental insights – Unpacking the Canadian Rental Report with Lionel Romain

Full  Transcript

Sean Cooper  

Hi, Lionel, how are you doing today?

Lionel Romain  

Doing great, Sean, thank you for having me on.

Sean Cooper  

It's a pleasure to speak with you. You're the first childhood brand that I've ever had on the podcast here. And it's great that we found a topic that we could share together your employment at Kijiji there so yes. Super excited to talk about a very interesting report you have for renters who are aspiring homeowners, as well as it has some great insight for landlords. So yes, really looking forward to sharing that with the listeners today.

Lionel Romain  

Yeah, thanks. It's great to reconnect on something so many years later, after initially meeting while playing in the sandbox, we were little kids. So I'm looking forward to the conversation as well.

Sean Cooper  

Yeah. Who would have thought we'd be doing a podcast together one day, Stranger

Lionel Romain  

Things have happened?

Sean Cooper  

Yeah, great. Well, yeah, let's jump into things here. So yeah, I had a look at the report. And definitely some very interesting insight. Encourage the listeners to check it out. We'll include a link in the show notes here. But yes, maybe you could just tell the listeners a bit about the report. So yeah, what is this report? This wonderful report that we're talking about? And why does it exist?

Lionel Romain  

Yeah, of course. Thanks for the question. So yeah, the report we're talking about, that could use your rental report, we kicked off an iteration of the Kijiji Rental Report and 2023. And it's been getting some pretty good traction from your media outlets. And as well as on social from both the renters and kind of landlord segments as well as the just people generally interested in the real estate market.

So we've been continuing to produce this report throughout 2023, we did kind of a year in review that we launched in q1. And the most recent version of this is based on the first three months of 2024. So we've been looking at all of the rental data that we have on Kijiji from that period, in some cases, we are kind of comparing it to the same period in 2023.

Sometimes we're comparing it kind of a year over year view, or maybe just chopping things up and looking at a particular segment of interesting data. So yeah, like as Kijiji is most visited rental place, we have so many data points that we can use to build these interesting stories, and just really generate some insights that can help hopefully help Canadians maybe save a few bucks or learn a few things about the rental journey or kind of about how to better market or rent the rental properties to renters. 

Sean Cooper  

Yeah, sounds great. I mean, being a landlord myself, I wish a report like that existed back then. Because if you just put out a Rental Report, and you have no clue what tenants are looking for, you may not attract the right of tenants.

But yes, the more data that you have at your fingertips, the better that you can write a rental listing, and it saves time for both parties. It saves time for the landlord as well as the renters so that you're both thought of looking at properties that aren't not well suited for either party.

So yeah, I'll be sure to include a link to the Rental Report for everyone to check it out. And I highly recommend that you check it out there. But yeah, we'll be diving into this report, because I understand that you have a lot of interesting insights to the report here.

So following up on that there, could you share some of the insights in the report that would be interesting to the listeners and might help landlords looking to rent their property in the coming months here?

Lionel Romain  

Yeah, of course. So one thing that was particularly interesting, that we looked at in the report, was not so much around the rental prices, but around the experience of the renters and the landlords, when they're either posting or replying to listings for rental apartments. So the time of day was one really interesting thing that we zoomed in on here.

We were looking at a couple of different things. So first of all, you're looking at when renters are looking for apartments, you know, like, obviously, there's going to be people that are looking, you know, early in the morning, all hours of the day, but really, what are the most people looking during the daytime?

What's the range of, of when most renters are kind of interested in looking at and replying to apartments, and for landlords that can be, you know, particularly helpful. Maybe I want to strategize when I'm posting my rental listing or even potentially promoting my rental listing at a certain time of the day to kind of take advantage of these trends of these insights. So the one thing that we noticed is that the biggest percentage of Canadians looking for rental listings are typically searching between the hours of 6am and 6pm.

I you know, that's pretty broad window, but I think, you know, when you think through it logically, that's the time when most people are kind of up and at it and really kind of Looking for different things, they're shopping, they're working, they're doing all sorts of different things. They're not busy with kids and sleeping and all that kind of stuff. 

Sean Cooper  

I have some early risers there at 6am and don't really like looking at stuff until I've had my morning cup of tea there. But I guess there are some early risers there that like to get to it. The first thing I mean, I guess you could just kind of check it out on your phone when you're first waking up there. That's

Lionel Romain 

And I bet a lot of those people have even been to the gym before they start looking. So you know, you have those early morning risers? Not for me, but yeah, there's certainly a lot of people that get up early and start their days. 

Sean Cooper  

Yes, amen to that.

Lionel Romain  

So a couple of other things. So like, between six and nine, things really start to slow down. But we do see about 70% of the replies coming during that period. So kind of in that like, kind of dinner before bedtime, you know, we don't see as much interest but you know, I guess you're seeing a lot of people maybe sitting there on their phones during dinner kind of looking around when they have a little bit of at least half free time when they're just eating. But the most surprising thing for me, I think, is that we saw 22% of replies for standard long term rentals and 24% of replies in the roommates category that happened between 9pm and 4am.

So that's quite a large percentage of the total replies that we see. And it really tells us that maybe there's a lot more kinds of night owls out there than we previously thought, which is really interesting, right? I wouldn't think to be looking for apartment sets at, you know, 10pm at night or at midnight. But, you know, perhaps that's just my lifestyle.

So I guess an important lesson for landlords, who are looking to engage with these people is, yeah, it might be a little bit different than what you think in terms of when people are looking around for apartments. So if you're looking for that kind of niche, if you're looking for that balance between kind of supply and demand, hey, maybe hosting your ad around 9pm might not be the worst idea. Because you have far less competition for listings, fewer landlords are posting them.

And then you're seeing a lot of people actually replying. So you know, maybe that could provide you a nice little advantage over the landlords that don't know that stuff.

Sean Cooper  

That's great advice. And also, if you're going to be living on the property with a tenant, let's say you're renting out the basement of your primary residence, that can kind of be a clue if you're well suited for each other there. Because yeah, if you're an early riser, and the tenant is a night owl, it may not be the best fit there.

So yeah, I mean, of course it's like when Sony messages you it doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. But yeah, it could definitely give a clue for if you're well suited for each other. Because yeah, like if you're gonna be living with the person, some people are five people, other people are social people like to have a lot of guests over and stuff like that.

And I find it's helpful when both the tenant and landlord if they're living together have a similar lifestyle there. So yeah, that can definitely give you a clue as to if you have a similar lifestyle and would be a good fit there. Because yeah, you don't want to be waking up early and waking up the tenant and you don't want to be trying to go to bed early, and then the tenant wants to stay up till midnight there.

So yeah, definitely. It's helpful to know some of that stuff in advance so that you're not getting on each other's nerves later on.

Lionel Romain  

Yeah, absolutely. It's an interesting thing to look at to consider that demographic of when that person is maybe initially engaging with you around that rental to give you a maybe a little bit of a sneak peek about their lifestyle.

So you know, obviously, maybe dig into that a little bit further. Because you know, first impressions can be deceiving. But yeah, it's certainly a good indication of a potential fit. Fit right off the bat.

Sean Cooper  

Yeah, I wouldn't screen them out solely based on that. But definitely that at the back of your line, and maybe ask them a question or two about that. Absolutely. Yeah, that's an interesting insight there. I'm sure you have some others. Do you have maybe one or two other interesting insights to share from the report?

Lionel Romain  

Yeah, I think like, just to follow up on the kind of time of day thing. I mentioned that landlords are posting fewer listings in the evening time. But I just wanted to also highlight, again, for anyone that's listening got to landlord that's, you know, experiencing maybe quite a bit of competition in that space for trying to get that right tenant for trying to get that perfect fit for their apartment, that we do notice that the afternoon between kind of 12pm and 6pm seems to be the hot time for posting and promoting rentals.

So as a landlord, you know, even if you're like we just discussed, you know, maybe if looking for a tenant that's kind of active in the evening isn't maybe your cup of tea. Another nice window to look at is that kind of morning time at 6am to noon, and again, we're seeing about 27% of listings posted in that morning time.

So if we're looking at you know, the number of people that are looking during that time versus the number of listings that are being posted at that time, that morning, 6am to 12pm is probably another nice little sweet spot similar to what I mentioned.

Do That 9pm to 4am later. So there's a couple of those little sweet spots where the demand kind of outstrips the supply that you might want to look at if you're trying to time things like that. 

Sean Cooper  

Wow, that's interesting. Thanks for sharing that there. And yes, I guess, with keeping that in mind if you're going to be renting your own property, and you're deciding versus using a realtor to help you with the property, and definitely the realtor can help you with listed the property on Kijiji there, but yeah, I guess you have to ask yourself, Do I have the capacity to reply to these messages and reply to phone calls during the day during this peak time? Because if you have a pretty demanding full time job, that may not be ideal for you. So maybe hiring a realtor might make sense in that case there.

So yeah, definitely something to think about. Absolutely. Yeah. Great. Is there anything else that you wanted to mention about the report there? That's definitely it's been some helpful insights so far,

Lionel Romain  

huh? Sure. Yeah. So there's some really interesting things. When you dig into the rental data and kind of maybe look at things from a little bit of a wider scope. Like one of the things that I was interested in when we were looking at this data was like, Well, we know about renters, and we know about, you know, what they're doing with the rental listings.

And specifically, what else are they doing? Like, we don't really know that renters experience their rental journey, as well as, you know, maybe we would want to as a landlord, or as renters. So we looked at some data slightly outside of the rental space, like when a person is on Kijiji looking for a rental kind of we asked the question, what else are they looking for? Like, what else are they thinking about?

So are they considering purchasing? What services are they looking at? Right? And that will give us a little bit more insight about the person and about that kind of rental journey that people are going through? So like one example, which is actually the number one most replied to category by people that are also looking for rentals is furniture. And that really makes a lot of sense.

Like, could you just have categories they've got we've got furniture, we've got cars, we've got jobs, you've got all different services, you can buy a phone, all kinds of stuff, so you have the kind of opportunity to be on Kijiji with a number of different things. And so what we find is that renters are looking for furniture, it makes a ton of sense, right, you're moving into a new rental, and you obviously did furnish that rental, and you're probably staring down a pretty hefty monthly rental price.

So one of the things that a lot of Canadians are doing is they're going on Kijiji at the same time, and they're also looking at furniture to help furnish their apartment once they find that new home. And I guess for landlords like that may be a particularly interesting insight into people wondering whether or not they should offer their unit as furnished or unfurnished.

But we know that a lot of people looking for rentals are looking to purchase that furniture. So it may be a nice way to attract that segment of people who are budget conscious and looking for maybe some of that secondhand furniture on Kijiji, maybe they'd be amicable to a furnished unit and maybe even be a little more attractive to them.

Sean Cooper  

That's some interesting insight there. Thanks for sharing that because yeah, maybe some people might not have considered furnishing their unit but yeah, it seems that the report it's definitely conclusive that there are a lot of people looking for furnished places. So yeah, definitely something to consider as a landlord if you're going to be renting out your property there.

And yeah, I mean, there's a lot of competition on both sides for the renters as well as the landlord's like, as a renter, you're competing against other against potential like tenants, other applicants, and as a landlord, you're competing against other landlords listing their property is kind of like buying and selling, like when you sell your property, you're competing against other people selling their property there.

So I'm just curious, like, in terms of what renters are looking for, besides furnished apartments, like do you have any other interesting insight and for somebody that's looking to list their their property as a landlord in terms of what renters are looking for so that they can better position and other their properties so that they're getting the right type of tenants? Do you have any other interesting insights into that, Lionel?

Lionel Romain  

Yeah, I think like, what would be an interesting thing for landlords to kind of keep in mind is that a lot of and again, related to this kind of what else are renters looking at when they're looking for a rental is they're looking at, and a lot of people know this already, but the data is showing is that a lot of people are also looking at homes for sale.

So this same group that's looking for rental apartments is at least considering, you know, the idea of purchasing a home, whether that you know may be realistic in the near future or something down the road, that they're just looking for a little bit of inspiration. I think landlords keep that in mind that, you know, oftentimes the ideal outcome for someone is owning their own home.

So kind of anything that you can do with your rental to make it feel like an independent home for that renter, versus, you know, the feeling of just, you know, living in someone else's space, you know, I think can make a big difference.

And there's ways that you can do that, in terms of how maybe the rental is laid out, and maybe some of the amenities that are offered, just maybe even some of the ways that you communicate the property to that tenant around like, hey, it's quiet, it's private, you know, its own outdoor space.

So really leaning on some of those things that people are interested in, when they're weighing that option between you know, the idea of maybe buying a home versus renting a home, just think about some of those differences, and maybe try and incorporate that into your rental and how you communicate that rental.

And it may give you a better opportunity to attract, you know, maybe that right kind of tenant that you're looking for.

Sean Cooper  

That's great advice. Because yeah, if you just write a rental listing as a landlord, and you have no idea in terms of what the ideal tenant is, you're going to attract all sorts of different tenants, which you may not be well suited for. But if you have a specific tenant in mind, you can really like Target the listing towards that tenant.

Like if you're looking for somebody that's looking for a backyard, you can mention the spacious backyard and bench and like you said, if you're looking for somebody who is looking for quiet, you could mention that it's in a quiet neighborhood there.

So yeah, definitely giving some thought to that. And having in mind the ideal tenant ahead of time before you write the rental listing, I find it very helpful and inhaling. Like there's literally 1000s of rental listings on Kijiji, so why not go on there and see, like when I'm renting my place, so we see what is being rented in my area.

And I like that I don't copy it word for word, but I just see how they advertise the property. And it kind of gives me some ideas in terms of how I could better write my listing there. So yeah, definitely don't steal from other people's listings, but just see how they're advertising their listings. And that may give you some helpful insight into how you can write your listing better to attract the right type of tenants so that you're well suited for each other, and you're not wasting each other's time.

Lionel Romain  

Yeah, and again, in pricing as well, right pricing is an important factor to make sure that your asking grant is kind of within the range of the affordability of the type of tenant that you're looking for. And these rental reports, you know, landlords will find some insights, you know, specifically down to even the number of bedrooms contained in that rental apartment to give them an idea of, you know, what an average rent might look like.

But like you said, you know, even going a little bit deeper than just looking at a report into going onto the site. And doing some searches that are similar to your property and finding out how other landlords are advertising their properties, what prices they're putting on them, you know, whether they're including utilities in the cost or not learning all of those things before you get started and post that rental can really put you in an advantageous place to finding the right kind of tenant.

So yeah, that's a great, great insight, Sean, going to the site and just pretending that you're a renter looking for an apartment. And just better understanding that journey before you get into it from the landlord's side is definitely a great recommendation.

Sean Cooper  

Yeah, I always do that myself there. Because prices are so key. You don't want to price yourself too low and be leaving money on the table. But you don't want to be pricing yourself too high. Because what will happen is people will view your property and they will like the property and all that but they'll just they're going to be seeing other properties in the area.

And they'll think Well, why is your property listed so much more and the other properties are listed less than I can get the same amount or get even better amenities than your property, there's so it's so important to just see what else is listed out there and just make sure your property is competitive, because you may have a very nice rental unit.

But the same idea as when you're trying to sell your property, you may have a very nice property, but if you don't price it correctly, then it's just gonna sit on the market forever. And you could have spent all this money renovating it and putting all this hard work into making the property look really nice. But if you don't price it correctly, then it's just going to sit there and it's going to be frustrating for both parties because the tenants may like it but the price will make sense and you're going to be frustrated as the landlord because you put all this hard work into the property and it's not renting and you're missing out on potential rents.

So yeah, definitely it can save a lot of headaches for both parties. If you just go on there. See what other properties are being listed for in terms of price. Send amenities and you make sure that yours is competitive and you adjust accordingly. So yeah, thanks so much for the helpful insight there.

Lionel Romain  

Yeah, of course, it's kind of one of those, like if you've got it, flaunt it kind of things and like that's one additional tip that I would just give to landlords, kind of piggybacking on what you said, is that make sure when you're posting on sites like Kijiji that you consider all of the different amenities that your apartment has, or that your rental unit has, and if it does have those, make sure that it's well reflected in the listing itself, right, whether that be one of the many kind of amenity attributes that we offer on listings on Kijiji, like you can identify whether you you know, offer utilities, or just some utilities, pets, no pets, outdoor space, whether there's a yard or a balcony.

So making sure that you have all of those amenities that turned into data points on Kijiji that people are looking for, people are selecting those filters, choosing which amenities are most important to them. So by including those in your listing, you're making sure that you are putting your best foot forward to creating the best fit between the person that's initially replying to your listing and your rental unit itself.

So I would say that for landlords, that's definitely a strong recommendation is just to make sure that your listing reflects everything that you offer in that rental unit to make sure that initial engagement is with the right person.

Sean Cooper  

Very well say, well, thank you very much Lidl for being on the podcast today. It was a pleasure speaking with you, I appreciate you sharing all this helpful insight, the terms of the report there. And as mentioned, I will link to the report in the show notes. So be sure to check that out there.

But yeah, thanks again for being on the podcast. And we'll be sure to do this again in the future here. So yeah, I appreciate your time and insight today. It was a very interesting conversation that we had.

Lionel Romain  

Thanks, Sean. We'd be happy to come on again. Anytime you just let me know. Thanks. It was a pleasure speaking with you

Sean Cooper  

Thanks for listening to another episode of the Burn Your Mortgage podcast. Besides being a podcast host, I’m also an independent mortgage broker. If you or anyone you know, family, friends, co workers or neighbors could ever use any unbiased mortgage advice or a second opinion, feel free to reach out. Email me at sean@burnyourmortgage.ca or call or text me at 647-867-3711 for a free mortgage consultation.

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