On today’s show I’ll be talking to Anthony Molinaro, Adrian Omasta and Conor Duffy.
Anthony Molinaro is a normal guy from Brampton who happens to buy investment properties with his two buddies, Adrian and Conor. He works as a marketer for Rock Star Real Estate and is also a property manager & tenant placement expert.
Adrian Omasta joint ventured with his two buddies from Brampton to buy 3 investment properties in 3 years while in their mid 20’s.
Conor Duffy is a 27 year old Chartered Insurance Professional. He bought his first property (joint-venture with Anthony & Adrian) in July 2021, and bought his second (joint-venture) in Sudbury in February 2022.
In my interview with Anthony, Adrian and Conor, we discuss selecting the perfect partner for a joint venture in real estate, tenant screening done right and buying a rental property as your first property.
Without further ado, here’s my interview with Anthony Molinaro, Adrian Omasta and Conor Duffy.
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Full Transcript
Sean Cooper
Welcome to the Burn your Mortgage podcast, I'm Sean Cooper and it's great to be back for another episode on today's show. For the first time ever, I'll be interviewing three guests at the same time, two returning guests and a brand-new guest. I'll be speaking with Anthony Molinaro, Adrian Omasta, and Conor Duffy.
Anthony Molinaro is a normal guy from Brampton who happens to buy investment properties with his two buddies, Adrian and Conor. He works as a marketer for Rock Star Real Estate and is also a property manager & tenant placement expert.
My second guest Adrian Omasta joint ventures with his two buddies from Brampton to buy three investment properties in three years while in his mid 20s.
And my third guest Conor Duffy is a 27 year old Chartered Insurance Professional. He bought his first property (joint-venture with Anthony & Adrian) in July 2021, and bought his second (joint-venture) in Sudbury in February 2022.
In my interview with Anthony, Adrian and Conor, we discussed selecting the perfect partner for a joint venture in real estate, tenant screening done right and buying a rental property as your first property.
Without further ado, here’s my interview with Anthony Molinaro, Adrian Omasta and Conor Duffy.
Sean Cooper
Well, I'm excited to be back for another episode of the Burn Your Mortgage show. And this is a first I actually have for the first time ever three guests on my podcast. That's right. I've had two guests in the past. But for the first time ever, I have three guests. And I have another first on this podcast as well. I have the first three time guests on the podcast, Anthony Molinaro, he appeared on one of the first episodes of the Burn Your Mortgage podcast, and then he appeared again, three years ago.
So it's been exciting to follow him on his real estate journey from the Toronto Star article to owning his first rental properties. So yeah, I wanted to start by welcoming Anthony to the podcast. And it's great to be here with you. Maybe we can let the listener know what you've been up to in the last three years. And just tell us a bit about yourself in case the listeners didn't listen to the first or second podcast there.
But yeah, well, as mentioned in the first podcast you had been featured in the Toronto Star you didn't own any properties at that point in time. And the last podcast, your friend Adrian at you had bought your first property as rent to own. And now you are at three properties. So maybe you can fill in the missing pieces and let us know how you manage to get up to a property three.
Anthony Molinaro
Yeah, thanks, Sean. I appreciate you having me on three times. It's an honor to come on here. And now with my two buddies, Adrian and Conor, to bring them on to it's really cool, because these guys have been a huge and instrumental part of my journey. And I definitely wouldn't have three properties without either of these guys.
So yeah, the Toronto Star article came out when I was 20. It was about how I was working full time in a warehouse at Pepsi and also paying my way through university, which was going to be full time. And I was just working a lot and the question that I had raised to the Toronto Star was how can I get ahead in life essentially. And I got some kind of generic advice about investing in mutual funds and index funds.
And then a woman reached out and gave me the book Rich Dad Poor Dad. And I read the book, called the woman that turned out to be this amazing woman who was a full time real estate investor living off of her property income. And she really taught me and introduced me to the world of real estate investing. And after that, I was lucky enough to get a job with Rockstar Real Estate.
We're probably the largest active group of real estate investors in all of Canada. In terms of the network of investors, we have a group that is called the Rockstar inner circle. And we're also a real estate brokerage. So we help educate investors on how to buy investment, real estate, all the different strategies around that and actually go out on the streets and help people purchase properties as a brokerage. And so that's how I kind of got started. And now I'm in this world full time working at Rockstar.
The first property that me and Adrian purchased were 24 years old, we bought it as a rent to own in St. Catharines. And after that property, we then went on and purchased a second property which was a joint venture between the three of us and someone else. Actually we took a big private loan from someone which we used to help purchase the property. And then that property was purchased with Adrian again, but also Conor was interested in what me and Adrian were up to and wanted to jump into real estate too. So he joined us on that venture.
He's then gone on to purchase another property with another friend of his, which I'm sure I'll tell you about Adrian and I just this past year 2020 to refinance that rent to own and went ahead and bought a seven bedroom student rental in Brock. And yeah, so that's just a quick catch up of everything that I've been up to. And Adrian has been a part of every step in that journey with me and Conor recently with that second purchase.
Sean Cooper
Great, thanks for bringing us up to speed. And sounds like you've been doing a lot of exciting things there Anthony. And yeah, as we were mentioning, before I hit the record button here. It just goes to show you that like you read the newspaper articles that the headlines, it just says like, there's a housing crisis, it is possible to get into the housing market, but you three are living proof as three guys that it's still or gals could do it as well that it's still possible to get into the real estate market, you just have to be a bit more creative.
So yeah, thanks for sharing all the cool things that you've been up to Anthony. So, Adrian, why don't you just introduce yourself again, to the listeners? And yes, maybe you could talk a bit about what you've been up to, as well on a real estate and personal front as well.
Adrian Omasta
Yeah, sure. So my name is Adrian. I've been buying properties with Anthony. I bought the three with him. So I'm still working at Pepsi currently, and just continuing to just save up for more real estate and stuff like that. But yeah, I feel real estate is just like being a joint venture.
Something is always better than nothing. So I just feel like being in a joint venture. It's just the only way possible for me to get into the market, especially at the purchase prices we're getting into that. So. Yeah, like Anthony was just a great joint venture partner and definitely opened a lot of doors for me for real estate.
Sean Cooper
No, that's great. And just speaking to that point, there, you said something interesting, Adrian, maybe that you could all speak to this point later on. But maybe you could talk a bit about how you could have a successful joint venture with somebody, I'm sure you all break separate skill sets the table, like, maybe you could, I mean, it's okay to your horn, or whatever they say, but maybe you could bet shed that how you balance each other out from a skill set standpoint and what your good skill set is. What would you say is your good skill set that you bring to the table? Adrian?
Adrian Omasta
That's a good question.
Conor Duffy
Actually,I can just jump in here. I would say that Adrian just does a really good job of managing our accounts for our home in St. Catharines. He's really on top of just all the finances, and it really comes in handy to have Adrian there to keep track of, you know, what's owed, what's next, and yeah, so he's super good at that. I guess, like, looking at the books.
Sean Cooper
Thanks for jumping in there, Conor. And yeah, might as well introduce you now. So you're the third person as part of like you bought that property together with Adrian at Anthony.
And you also own a second property that you were telling me in Sudbury as well. That's your second property and was another joint venture. So maybe you could just share your interesting story of how you met Anthony and Adrian and became friends and ended up investing in real estate together.
Conor Duffy
Yeah, for sure. Thanks for having me on the podcast, by the way. But yeah, I've known Anthony since I was I think nine years old. He went to the same elementary school. So I've been friends with Anthony for my entire life. So Anthony always had an entrepreneurial mindset, always wanted to, I guess, take a step away from the nine to five, traditional approach and look into investing, you know, things like that.
So yeah, when Anthony and Adrian bought their first property together, he was sharing it on his social media. And I found out and I thought, wow, this is awesome. I can't believe that two guys my age did that. It seems so far gone to me that someone that my age at the time that Anthony and Adrian, you guys were 24 when you bought that house in St. Catharines, your first one that someone that you want to buy home, and so I was super drawn and super interested.
I was following along with Anthony's articles in the newspaper, podcasts that he was on. Yeah. And then I guess what happened was Anthony kind of expressed that he was looking for another partner for another home. And then, you know, asked if I could join in. He took me up on that and got pretty qualified with this mortgage broker. Yeah. And then we got her our first home as a trio and St. Catherine's and then because of knowing Anthony and being so connected to Rockstar, and having such a great network of, you know, connections.
I was able to then segue into discovering Sudbury real estate. And yeah, it was a friend of Anthony's that he knew that introduced me to Sudbury real estate and, you know, shared how it was more of an affordable area and Ontario to invest in, but not too far away where we'd be considered to be too far removed from the GTA it is a bit far but it's still a big city, largest city by land and Ontario. And yeah, so And I guess that's what happened. I grabbed another partner. And we looked at salaries, went up a few times, did some showings, and we jumped right into the market. And yeah, I guess that's pretty much it.
Sean Cooper
Lots of remarkable stories. And again, it shows that it's still possible to get into the real estate market, you just have to be a bit more creative. So yeah, like since we're mentioning location here, and anyone we can really jump in, but maybe you can just talk a bit about some affordable and good areas, in your opinion. I mean, everybody is entitled to their own opinions.
But for somebody looking to buy a property, like the GTA is out of reach for most people, a home is like a million dollars. In many parts of it, there's but as you mentioned, like Sudbury sounds like a good entry point of being a mortgage professional, I help people buy in Peterborough before. And Niagara and St. Catharines seem to be popular.
But yeah, maybe you can just mention some other places in Ontario here that seemed like good areas to look in, if you're looking to buy real estate, where you're not going to have to drop seven figures to buy a property.
Anthony Molinaro
Well, honestly, it just kind of depends what stage of your journey you're in and where you live, and how much time you can dedicate to managing your properties and how far you're willing to drive. Like, it's very nuanced. Like, I don't want to give just one or two or three locations, because like any location, even in Toronto, and GTA can make sense for the right person at the right stage of their journey.
I mean, I can speak about why we made each decision that we did. At the time, when we bought our first place, we chose St Catharines. Because we were only qualified up to I think about 450,000 purchase price. Back in 2019, we both had kind of entry level jobs that really weren't making that much and didn't have a huge down payment, we just put 5% down on our first house that we scraped together.
And so St. Catharines was the closest place to where we lived in Brampton at a time and is the closest place to us that we can afford a nice home in a nice area. The closer to us, the better. We originally were looking at Hamilton, but didn't like the quality of homes that we could get in Hamilton based on what we were pre approved for. So that's really what pushed us out to St. Catharines.
I mean, it wasn't our first choice. I mean, St. Catharines has been great to us, it's been a great place to own real estate as much of southern Ontario, really. So it just kind of made sense for us. And then the second property, we're in the same boat, we're open to investing anywhere that we can afford based on our purchase price. And it just happened that an opportunity came up in St. Catharines, actually, with a joint venture partner that loaned us the money, we ended up buying one of her investment properties, and she was offloading. So we had a good opportunity there to buy the house kind of at a market discount as well actually.
And same thing with the third house, we bought it off market just through connections that I have through Rockstar, it was an off market deal. And it just happened again to be in St Catharines. But by this time, you know, we really liked having all the properties in one area just for management. Because what's quite a drive from Brampton and St. Catherine. It's like an hour, hour and a half. And so if we're going to go down there, it's easier to just manage all three of our places at once.
And that's what kind of just has kept driving us back there. I mean, there's a lot of stuff going for it. There's Brock University, Niagara College employees go train lines running there now more frequently, it's really become like a commuter city to the GTA. It's close to the entrance to the USA. So there is some fundamental stuff there. But in reality, it was just the closest place that we could afford. That's why I mean, when it's only once based on what stage you're at and how much money you have all these personal factors.
Sean Cooper
Sure, no problem. And I guess, Adrian, if you had anything else to add, but you own properties in the same place as Anthony, so we might not have anything else to add. But definitely, Conor, if you want to talk about Sudbury and why you chose that and any other areas that you're interested in as well. But I mean, Adrian, feel free to jump in if you have anything else to add.
Conor Duffy
Okay, I was just gonna say, I completely agree with Anthony, I think that it definitely depends on your investment journey in life, you definitely have to look at things like your budget, what you can qualify for your risk tolerance, and you know, what it is that you want to do and what your goals are with your properties.
You know, some listeners might be looking to buy a principal versus some listeners might want to start their portfolio or expand it. So it really depends on the user or on the investor. But I guess the reason why Sudbury was of interest was because it had the same sort of rental characteristics as, you know, other popular rental cities. The vacancy rates were really low in Sudbury, there were a lot of jobs, but there was such a demand for rent in the area.
I remember when I into buying the areas or whatever one time I was before I had bought the property I had called the contractor and I was asking about what are some of the bylaw requirements that a home in Sudbury has to have in order to be converted to a multi unit property like a duplex if I wanted to convert that basement or finish the basement or something and converted into a duplex or a multi unit board I have to do.
And so I called a couple of contractors that kind of gave me some answers. They told me like, you know, the zoning, bylaw numbers and everything and what the height is and everything. And then I remember saying at the end of the phone call, you know, thank you so much for your help. I'm going to add you as a contact in my phone to, you know, create, like a bit of a network here. And the guy said, Oh, don't worry, you're probably the fifth investor that's called this week asking about this. So he's like, Oh, wow, worry about it. Yeah.
So I thought, Okay, this is the real deal. There is a huge demand to buy homes in Sudbury, and I remember when me and my partner, his name is Christian. Him and I went up to Sudbury to do a couple of showings, we went to these homes, the Donovan, which is the downtown area and Sudbury and other areas, and we're looking at these homes, and it kind of feels like it is kind of removed from the GTA, but it seems like a pretty big city, so pretty populated.
And we were putting offers on these homes, and we were getting, you know, bids by like 678 More offers, probably about 15 offers on each home at the time. Wow. That was in February of 2022, though, in January in February of 2022. So that's when the real estate market was still really hot. And when a lot of people were still buying homes more frequently, I guess.
So I guess my answer is that it really just depends on your appetite. It really depends on your risk tolerance, your budget. And I think that it's important to do your research on the cities that you're investing in. I think that a lot of first time homebuyers are going to Sudbury because of the price point. But some people might not want to expand their portfolio to Sudbury because of the rent being lower. What's really popular at Sudbury now, and connections that Anthony's introduced me to is they only believe in multi unit rentals in Sudbury, then they kind of stay away from single family units because of the lower rents. But yeah, I guess that's that'd be my answer.
Sean Cooper
No, thank you for the detailed answer. And in summary, it sounds like there's plenty of opportunities out there, depending on where you are at in life and what you're looking for in your budget. So yeah, that positive message is not necessarily the news headline saying it's possible to buy a property like you three are living proof that it's certainly still possible.
So Adrian, I want to give you a chance to speak equally as well. So a question that we haven't maybe we've touched on this a bit, but we haven't actually addressed it in the podcast is why buy a rental property first, like many people think when they buy a property that my primary residence first, but maybe you can talk a bit about a personal standpoint, as well as like a financing standpoint, as well. Why did you decide to buy rental properties first, before you had a primary residence for yourself?
Adrian Omasta
Yeah, that's a great question. So I guess the reason why I did it was mostly because I believe it when I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, he did say that having your own personal house is actually a liability, because you are the one who are paying who's paying the mortgage, the tax and insurance. Whereas when you have an investment, it's the tenants who are paying all that. So I just looked at it as kinda like an investment more. So we were getting cash flow on top of our expenses.
Anthony Molinaro
Yeah, I think at the time you Adrian, we were both still living at home. And we couldn't buy a house on our own because of what we qualified for. So we were both into this stuff. And we just spoke and said, why don't we do this together, we can actually purchase a nice home in a nice area. If we buy together. That's within a decent driving distance to Brampton, which was St. Catherine, I think that's really what went into our decision. And I was like, Okay, it's better known 50% of something than 0% of nothing, because we can bind anything, unless we really drove far out or maybe went to Sudbury but at the time, especially buying our first investment property.
We didn't have the connections, the knowledge, the network, or the confidence really to invest as far away as the place is in Sudbury. And so that's why we kind of decided to go in on that together and stay living at home too. You know, we're fortunate enough that our parents allowed us to live at home for as long as they did and save up money and get these properties. So we kind of took advantage of that brief window of time that we knew we'd have in early and mid 20s. Before we would want to leave the house or our parents want us to leave. We took advantage of that.
Sean Cooper
That's well said Anthony and I guess like my sister is finding herself in a similar situation. Many people are surprised to learn that they qualify to spend if they can come up with that 20% down payment on the rental property, they can qualify to spend quite a bit more on a rental property versus a primary residence. And I mean, we're talking about maybe 50,000, $100,000 In some cases there and the main reason is because you're able to include the hypothetical rent that you would receive to help offset the liabilities of the property, the mortgage taxes, maintenance fees if it's a condo and it can actually be a bit of a wash.
Like if you can get good rents on the property, it might not even affect your borrowing capacity at all, it might actually help your borrowing capacity. So certainly, if you have gone out to be pre approved for a primary residence and you're not happy with what the numbers look like, then yeah, definitely consider buying a rental property and the 20% down payment can be a bit of a barrier to entry.
But as my guests here have spoken about, like if you can't come up with 20%, on your own, you can go in together with one or two other people to come up with that amount there. And then you can do like the BRRR strategy, which it sounds like you've done where you basically refinance properties, pull out money, and then use that towards the down payment of your next property, and then rinse and repeat and do it over again.
So it's just about getting your foot in the door and getting that first property. And then you can just keep doing that over and over again, and refinancing and buying more properties there. So yes, thanks for sharing that there, Anthony.
And we have about three or so minutes left here. So I just wanted to make sure, Anthony, you're actually teaching a tenant screening course at Rockstars. And maybe you can just tell us about what you've learned in the last three years. And just some basic tips and advice on tenant screening, because that's such an important topic, because as I mentioned, in my book, it's a lot easier to screen out a bad tenant than it is to evict them out of your property.
Now, the stories of bad tenants are far and few between most tenants are good people. But yeah, it just takes one tenant to ruin the experience for you. So maybe you can just talk a bit about what you teach people in the course and some top lessons you want to pass along.
Anthony Molinaro
Yeah, so I would say you can solve 90% of your problems upfront. By buying, you know, with real estate investing by buying the right house in the right area that's going to attract the right tenant in the first place, is really the location that you buy a property and and that type of property, that's going to determine the type of tenant attracted to living in that area living in that property.
So that's the main one right there on the purchase. You know, if you purchase a rundown property in a rundown area, you're likely going to get the type of tenant who wants to live in that area, which is likely going to be a tenant who's going to be going to give you more problems. So if you buy a nice home in a nice area, you'll attract a nice tenant. And then once you do go to market and find tenants, you know, it's really important to get as much exposure as you can.
So I found that Facebook marketplace is the number one place where you can post rental listings to get the most exposure. And then pre screened tenants who reach out from those ads on Facebook and a couple other places where I post, I'll pre screened I'm using an online form that kind of filters them through 15 different questions that I've set up, such as how much income they may, what their credit scores are, like how many people want to move in, and do they have pets, and if they meet all my preset criteria, which is usually like a minimum of 650 average credit scores between all the adults 2.75 times the rent as a minimum income level.
So the tenants gross income before taxes must be minimum 2.75. Or you can even bump it up a bit higher to three times the amount of rent. So if rent is 2500, I'm looking for a minimum gross income score of like 7500. And you know, based on all the other stuff, if it's the right amount of occupants, the right living situation that I'm looking for, for those tenants for that type of unit, then I'll invite them to show him from the showing I kind of get a good gut feel for the person, I feel them out, see how they are how they present themselves, you know, just really get a good gut feeling if they're going to be a good fit, or if I think they could cause any problems or stress down the road.
And based on that, if it all checks out, well then have them you know, fill out a rental application with more details. And then I'll put them through a screening process, which usually involves a program I use called single key. And really, it's just a credit check program that I like, it's my favorite one that I've used in Canada, it's called single key tenant in background report. I think it also calls a criminal background check report through that as well.
So that's how I pull credit on everyone. I never take someone else's credit report or trust that because you can actually pay for fake credit reports. So I always run on my own credit. And then I verify income. I verify employers. I also use a program called VerifyFast which is great for actually doing a bank check on tenants where it'll pull tenants bank account information later on.
And it's really nice report and you can actually verify you know how much income they're making on a monthly basis, how much savings they have in the bank account that really shows the financial health of someone so between single key very fast meeting them in person, and you know, checking social media and that their story all lines up. That's how you can really screen out and find good tenants.
Sean Cooper
Great and yes, checking social media. A lot of people wouldn't even think of checking social media. So that's a great tip. Yeah, if they're partying all the time, then maybe you don't want that in and your property there. But if they seem like responsible people, then they might be a good fit. And yeah, maybe you can just quickly say like, how does gut feel go into it as well. I mean, you automate them in person and have a good feel for them. But it sounds like you do the background information as well, just backup the story to make sure that they're indeed like responsible people if they seem that way in person.
Anthony Molinaro
Yeah, totally. It all plays a part in the overall picture. And really gut feel, I think just comes down to, like, meeting people in regular day life, like, do you feel like they're lying to you? Do you feel I can trust them? Do they come off as sketchy? How do they present themselves? What's their hygiene? Like, because how they treat themselves is the reflection of how they treat the things in their life, such as you know, the car or the house they're going to be living in. It's really just picking up on all the small cues, but it's hard to label it as one thing, you know, how well their kids behave?
Sean Cooper
Do they show up on time for the viewing? Yes, exactly.
Anthony Molinaro
Do they show up on time? You know, what does their car look like? Like a beat up? On conjunct? That's like, pulling oil on the driveway? It doesn't have to be some fancy car? But is it being taken care of? How do they text you, how to communicate with you? Yes, punctuality. How do they kind of treat your house? You know, are there kids running around slamming the glass windows? Or are they well-behaved until on reflection are really the parent? So I think all those things combined.
Sean Cooper
Great. Do you have any more time? Or did you want to wrap up now? I just wanted to ask you about the property management stuff you've been doing. But if you have to get going, we can end it here.
Anthony Molinaro
Sure, I'll just quickly mention it. And then we can wrap. So in Bury for some investors, who built up a portfolio and then took off this past year to go build a ranch in Mexico, they didn't like all the COVID lock downs and kind of restrictions of freedoms that we had here. And so they decided they wanted to start a new life in Mexico, but they left behind their rental portfolio here. And they asked me to manage it. So I've been fortunate enough to become a property manager as well, just on the side of my day job in the past year or so just managing their portfolio on about eight properties in Bury.
Sean Cooper
And how have you found it? Is there any tips or advice that you can share being a property manager, and that would be helpful for the listeners, if they're going to hire a property manager or do that themselves?
Anthony Molinaro
Yeah, I think it's always best to start off managing your properties itself, because he really learned the ins and outs of the business and all the different aspects of managing. And then when you do go to hire manager, or outsource that part of your business later on, then you can much easier you know, know if someone's doing a good job and know if they're charging too much, because you know the ins and outs of it, and then you can just offload and outsource it.
But if you don't know the business, well what it takes to manage all the things involved, you know, you could hire someone and really not know if they're doing a good job or if overpaying. So that's my suggestion. And then in terms of being a property manager, I think it's really optimal if you can find good landlords who are willing to invest in their homes and in keeping good relationships with their tenants, because it makes your job as a manager much easier. And so fortunately, the landlords I've been working with have been great.
Sean Cooper
That's very well said. And that's a great analogy that you mentioned there. Because yeah, similar to starting your own business, the good idea to actually work in the industry that you're interested in starting the business app, many people have, if they want to start like a financial services company, they work at the bank first, just to understand how the industry works.
Like just going in, starting your own business can be rather challenging there. So the same idea, you want to try that stuff out for yourself just managing a property. And then you know, like the right things to look for in hiring a property manager and hiring contractors later on so that you know that you're getting good, honest service.
So yeah, that brings us to the end of the podcast. So I just like to thank all three of you for being on the podcast and being my first three-person podcast here. So yes, it was great to chat with all of you. And I'm sure you will be on the podcast again in the future here. And I'm excited to find out what you're up to. And probably next time when I interview you're going to be on properties five or six, I would imagine.
Anthony Molinaro
Yeah. Thanks, Sean. Thanks for the opportunity to know Adrian and Connor really did want to and open up this keeps rolling and then we can keep buying properties. Yeah. Thanks, Sean.
Sean Cooper
Thanks for listening to another episode of the Burn Your Mortgage podcast. Besides being a podcast host, I'm also an independent mortgage broker. If you or anyone you know, family, friends, co-workers or neighbors could ever use any unbiased mortgage advice or a second opinion. Feel free to reach out. Email me at Sean that's sean@burnyourmortgage.ca or call or text me at 647-867-3711 for a free mortgage consultation. Also be sure to head on over to www.burnyourmortgage.ca and sign up for my free weekly newsletter. As a small token of my appreciation, you'll be able to download my ultimate mortgage checklist on choosing the perfect mortgage. I look forward to hearing from you and helping you with all your mortgage needs. Once again, thanks for listening.